Thank you, Matt Thornton — this is one of the best responses I’ve ever received to any post — not just this one in particular. I am beyond grateful to you for this.

So a couple of thoughts I wanted to share with you. First, I heard from a LOT of people who related to the orange analogy. I have to tell you that a few short years, I’m not sure I saw myself as that person who would have identified with it until I listened to John O’Donohue’s podcast conversation with Krista Tippet — if you have not listened to it, you can do so HERE.

Also, I realize any recommendations of books and podcasts are as much about timing than just the message — the timing was right for me to hear John’s words and Kamal Ravikant’s book, Kamal speaks very nicely about the need for pilgrimages in our lives — one of my favorites right HERE.

“Should I want to prevent burnout?” ← love this question and thought. Here’s my own two cents on this, Matt. I believe when transition is the expectation (I see it as the rule!) then we’re not holding on to the idea of the finish line and destination to have all the answers. We hear people all the time say, “When I achieve x” or “When I arrive at Y,” things will be better. X and Y are just different places to work the same old belief systems — which if those are problematic now, it runs the risk of being amplified at a place with even more on the line.

One of the strategies I advocate for now — and one I could have done better myself when I knew I was transitioning out of CEO job at USA Canoe/Kayak a few years ago — is finding the smallest possible space in which to step out and experiment with new ideas and learning new skills. I don’t want to say it prevents against burnout but the spirit of learning and experimentation can have fantastic effects on how we develop in current roles and transition out to other ones.

Matt, please feel free to email me anytime at Joe@JoeJacobi.com. I enjoy the conversation and admire the steps you’ve taken and the journey you’re traveling. Would love to stay connected.